Controversial Town Meeting Date Changed
The meeting had been scheduled to take place on the first night of the Jewish holiday Passover.
By a 3-2 vote, Seekonk selectmen voted Wednesday morning to move the date of this month's special Town Meeting from March 25, the first night of the Jewish holiday Passover, to March 27.
Selectmen Dave Parker and Nelson Almeida, who were originally the only selectmen opposed to holding the meeting on Passover, voted against the move because they did not like that a notice appeared in the Wednesday morning edition of The Sun Chronicle stating the new meeting date had already been approved. A legal notice must be posted at least 21 days before the meeting, and Wednesday was the final day to do that so the session could take place on the new date—March 27.
"I wasn't aware we were going to post this in the paper," Almeida said. "Nobody asked how I felt about this. That's just totally wrong in so many ways, so many ways."
Almeida and Parker said the meeting could be moved to April.
Selectman Bob McLintock said he too was bothered by the posting appearing in the paper before the selectmen had actually voted on the new date, but he did not believe the meeting should be delayed further.
Selectmen Chair Francis Cavaco said the most important issue on the Town Meeting warrant is the school district's request for funding to improve emergency personnel communications in the schools. He said further delays could put children in danger.
"If there's an incident in a school, the burden is going to be on this board of selectmen because we are pussyfooting around with the dates for Town Meeting," Cavaco said.
He added, "If we keep on postponing, pussyfooting around with the date, we are putting the children's lives in danger ... I'm sorry for bringing this out because this may ... give an invitation to those who have mental issues ... to attack the schools."
The meeting had been scheduled to take place Feb. 25, but was canceled hours before it was to take place because the warrant did not include the date, time and place for the meeting, as required by law. At last week's selectmen meeting, the board unanimously approved a tentative make-up date of March 25. Two days later, Almeida and Parker refused to sign the warrant because of the Passover conflict.
This issue led to a significant amount of discussion for the past several days in Seekonk about whether the meeting date should be changed. A special selectmen meeting was scheduled for Wednesday morning to consider changing the date.
Almeida said Wednesday he had changed his mind two days after tentatively supporting the March 25 date because he had given it some though and realized as a Catholic he would not want a meeting to take place on an important Christian holiday.
McLintock and Sagar said they believed this issue had more to do with politics than religion. Sagar said he supported moving the date, but would not vote for it if the official reason were to accommodate a religious holiday. He noted March 27 is a Hindu holiday.
"In all my years living in Seekonk, we have never used a religious calendar for scheduling meetings," Sagar said. "Our founding forefathers supported a strict separation of church and state. It is poor public policy to set a precedent that we will be guided by a religious calendar, when we have a government that is guided by laws."
McLintock said when he signed the warrant Friday for the March 25 date, he did not know the significance of Passover. He said he later spoke to his accountant, who is Jewish, and was told that it is an important family night. This was enough information for him to determine the meeting date should be changed, McLintock said.
deb of see-attleboro
12:06 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Oh what a tangled web we weave....
What a dog and pony show.
How does public notice appear in the Sun Chronicle before the vote is taken?
Open meeting violation, perhaps? Or worse.....?
Carol Bragg
12:24 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Jonathan: I'm delighted about the move away from March 25, but know that the town by-laws require that the meeting be published in a newspaper of general and local circulation at least 21 days prior to the date of the meeting. Can you find out for us what the legal implications are for publishing in The Sun Chronicle before the action was taken this morning? Did Town Counsel approve this? Will bond counsel accept it? Is it open to legal challenge? There were suggestions last week that the Selectmen post a BOS meeting for Monday, which would clearly have met all legal requirements. Did the delay of two days create yet more legal problems? Thanks for keeping us updated.
Emcee of Seekonk
12:28 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
I hope the 500 Jewish residents of Seekonk appreciate the effort their BOS has put out for them. If they are smart (and I know they are) they haven't been following the argument.
What a confusing mess.
Jonathan Friedman
12:49 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
How do you know they're smart?
Emcee of Seekonk
3:16 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
It's called stereotyping.
There is a good article in today's Sun Chronicle by Larry Kessler entitled, "Seekonk needs more 'menschen', less 'mishegas'". It's worth the price of the paper.
Very clever fellow that Larry Kessler.
deb of see-attleboro
3:51 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Creative, for sure, Emcee.
Jonathan, I posted a comment in response to Mr Kessler's article this morning. It still shows as pending. I posted it on the article that reported on Paul Buckley's comments regarding the controversy. Did you miss it?
Jonathan Friedman
4:35 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Deb, we don't have any comments pending. Perhaps there was some glitch. Please post it again.
deb of see-attleboro
5:18 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
I just commented on his creativity. I know how Tevye feels when he says:
"Leave us alone, already!"
Back at you, Larry!
Isolationism...it's a beautiful thing.
Try to be nice. JEEZ!
But I agree Mr Kessler. The controversy never should have happened.
Carol Bragg
12:49 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Before a meeting takes place on March 27, I hope someone will confer with Town Counsel, bond counsel, and the Attorney General's office about whether actions taken in compliance with MGL requirements but not technically in compliance with our own by-laws will be accepted as legally binding.
Carol Bragg
1:05 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Bond counsel told Chris DeFontes this morning that publishing the notice in The Sun Chronicle today would be fine. So there will be no problems with Banna vote(s) unless the AG's office determines otherwise.
Wendy Wagner
1:30 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
"If we keep on postponing, pussyfooting around with the date, we are putting the children's lives in danger ... I'm sorry for bringing this out because this may ... give an invitation to those who have mental issues ... to attack the schools."
This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even know how to respond to something so ridiculous.
Carol Bragg
2:11 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Wendy: We can be completely confident that if school officials and the Seekonk Police Department felt that the lives of Seekonk's children were currently in danger they would close the schools until the upgrades in the security system were made. That said, they are important upgrades and ought to be approved. Let's hope Seekonk parents will ignore the remarks you referred to and trust the good judgment of the Acting Superintendent, the School Committee and public safety officers.
Lauren Walsh
3:44 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Or an invitation of those with mental issues to attack the town hall. GEEZZZ Even those without mental issues. STOP THE INSANITY
Proletarius
11:48 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Wendy - Agreed.
Todd Ouellet
12:00 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Even more so Wendy, we are voting on funding. But funding for what. Has any plan of action been drafted? It does not appear so! Just voting to give money to some company none of us know anyting about?!?! The BOS are smarter than us I guess so we should not worry and follow like good little sheep
! Same old Same old!
Carol Bragg
1:38 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
I would argue that the decision to avoid the first night of Passover was a decision made for all of us, not simply for the Jewish members of our community. When we can express unity in our religious diversity, we bind ourselves together as a community. Those of the Jewish faith will observe Passover on Monday evening. Those of the Christian faith will commemorate Jesus' last Passover seder on Thursday evening.
This may be the broadest interpretation of separation of church and state: to say that with state sanction the majority religion will not establish its tradition as more important than other faith traditions. If Good Friday is listed as a holiday on the Seekonk schools calendar and our Selectmen were not willing to reschedule Special Town Meeting so as not to conflict with the first night of Passover, we end up with de facto (if not de jure) establishment of religion and do not meet the spirit of the Founding Fathers.
Though they seem incapable of agreeing simultaneously on anything, all the members of the Board of Selectmen are to be commended for agreeing at one time or another that avoiding the first night of Passover is the right thing to do. Is this the silver lining in the clouds?
Dave Abbott
2:58 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
There is nothing to commend, applaud, or burst out in happiness about this. This was a train wreck plain and simple. The decision made was a political one, to correct what at this point was a series of miss-steps. But who knows, perhaps out of this self-inflicted carnage more people will become interested in Town Meeting to see what all of the noise is about.
paul
2:07 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Glad we all agree that Holy Wednesday is no big deal, just the day that Judas betrayed Jesus.
deb of see-attleboro
2:11 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
According to Mr Sagar, 3/27 is an occasion for Seekonk's Hindu population.
Eleonora Rezek
10:28 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Paul, I'm no expert but I believe this took place after the Last Supper which is on Holy Thursday (celebrated this year on 3/28) not Wednesday.
deb of see-attleboro
2:07 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
The silver lining is that I finally saw some life in Nelson. Mr Brady should be gettin' right on this one. I think it is much more up his alley than the poorly chosen meeting date.
IMO, there is an appearance of impropriety when public notice appears in the newspaper before the vote is actually taken. Low and behold, the three northerners show up to vote in favor of the change. Maybe just a coincidence. But I think it is worth investigating.
Joe
2:09 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
That is Mr. Cavaco's way of getting around the mess we are in, I believe mostly thanks to him. You come out with stupid statements like giving ideas to mentally unstable persons to attack schools. Why is it that ALL of a sudden the BOS Chair is so concerned about the safety of the schools & the seniors? Could it be because it is election time? Remember folks the town election is only 26 days from today. Get out and cast your vote.
deb of see-attleboro
2:13 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
I think Mr Cavaco lost the election today. His judgement is definitely questionable, at best.
paul
2:48 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Joe, is right on. This goes on in almost every election on all levels, it's called playing the fear card. Ask any student if they have problems communicating with each other while in school.
Carol Bragg
3:06 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Let's hope someone takes the opportunity to explain the Hindu holiday, its significance and how it's observed. On the interreligious calendar being circulated, there are many minor religious holidays listed.
Dave Abbott
3:26 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Don't forget to include the Pagans...remember...it is all about respect!
Here are the Pagan holidays in March;
http://pagancalendar.co.uk/
Carol Bragg
4:55 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
There's no conflict with the Hindu Holi Festival on March 27. It marks the beginning of spring and is celebrated by flinging brightly colored dyes at each other. The festival has been celebrated at Wheaton College in Norton since 2006 and occurs during the day.
Perhaps we could increase the turnout for the Special Town Meeting by providing powdered dyes for residents to throw at each other or to throw at whomever they feel so inclined. The Town Moderator would need to determine whether this can be done randomly or whether the person tossing dyes must first be recognized. But because comments can't be directed at other people and must instead be directed to the Moderator, she may want to protect herself by making a preemptive ruling that tossing dyes is disruptive behavior and will not be tolerated.
Lauren Walsh
5:15 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
This is GREAT humor! ....and creates some hysterical imagery. Thank you for the good laugh
Carol Bragg
5:26 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Alternately, we might adopt a "pay as you throw" policy and raise funds for the Banna fire station, the animal shelter and the senior center by inviting local, state and national elected officials to let Seekonk residents fling colored dyes at them.
William Rice
6:48 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
It's money being thrown, our money. Let's hope this truly rediculous behavior doesn't distract people from the purpose of the Town Meeting: spending money....show up.
Todd Ouellet
12:05 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Yes. the real topic. thans Bill!!!
Todd Ouellet
12:06 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Thanks Bill!
Terese Bohaxiu-Dicastiglione
7:50 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
There is something seriously amiss administratively in Seekonk when, within about a week, a Town meeting has to be postponed due to lack of proper notice, followed by the premature publication of a new meeting date before it was approved by the BOS. This is an embarassment to the town.
Carol Bragg
9:42 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Passover celebrates the liberation of the Jews from slavery in Egypt, the shared history of Jews, Christians and Muslims. If we are ever to live in peace and unafraid under our vines and fig trees, acknowledging that which binds us together must be our common goal. Our understanding of Passover is central to the future of our life together on this planet. Freedom struggles are always messy, as are birth and giving life to new ideas. Though it may be painful and filled with a lot of politics and kvetching (complaining), perhaps Seekonk is on the the way out of the wilderness of old ways of thinking.
Todd Ouellet
12:05 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Carol. Please refrain from the theological enlightenment. You are so far off topic. Shouldnt you be preparing something for this years blueberry crop. Sorry. that was off topic!
Carol Bragg
1:01 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
I thought Jonathan was the moderator, but perhaps there has been a change? If the topic is spending tax dollars and what we have available for school security, the Banna fire station, the senior center and other projects, it's not at all off topic except for those who don't understand that part of the reason we're strapped for funds for infrastructure and local services is because we're spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year as a nation because Jews, Christians and Muslims hate and fear each other. This gets expressed in terrorist attacks and wars. We scrutinize and fight over relatively insignificant amounts of money appropriated at Town Meeting or Special Town Meeting and never seem to ask why we don't have more resources at the local level. Some men seem to prefer to fight rather than to consider how to make peace, including here in Seekonk. If you guys had a corner on the truth and all the answers, the world and Seekonk wouldn't be in the mess we are. Please refrain from trying to silence those with whom you disagree.
Dave Abbott
1:20 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Carol until you can view men and women equally you will remain part of the problem, not the solution. Your postings continue to emphasize why religion and government should not mix.
Carol Bragg
3:12 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
I'm not sure what you mean by viewing men and women equally. Please explain. To view men and women equally seems to ignore anatomy, physiology, the behavorial sciences, history, sociology, and many other fields of inquiry. Perhaps I am mistaken. Equal rights, yes, but only achieved in this country after a hard-won struggle in which women could see that men and women were not treated equally. Equal pay, no. Equal in physical strength, no. Equal in all professions, no. Equal in acts of aggression, no. I believe -- and this is belief only -- that men and women have similar but not entirely equal potential and that it's better to recognize the differences and disparities and to try to overcome those that are obstacles to having a more harmonious existence with each other and the earth.
Carol Bragg
3:26 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Religion and government do mix in this country and have since the nation was founded. Someone sent me this: The "Establishment Clause" was intended to prevent a "national" religion like so many European countries had in 1789. It was not intended to remove every vestige of religion from the public arena. Here is a list of "government approved" religious activity: Emblazoned over the rostrum of the Speaker of the House in the U.S. Capitol are the words "In God We Trust." The Supreme Court building built in the 1930's has carvings of Moses and the Ten Commandments. God is mentioned in stone all over Washington D.C., on its monuments and buildings. As a nation, we have celebrated Christmas to commemorate the Savior's birth for centuries. Oaths in courtrooms have invoked God from the beginning. The founding fathers often quoted the Bible in their writings. Every president that has given an inaugural address has mentioned God in that speech, Prayers have been said at the swearing in of each president. Each president was sworn in on the Bible, saying the words, "So help me God." Our national anthem mentions God. The liberty bell has a Bible verse engraved on it. The original constitution of all 50 states mentions God. Chaplains have been in the public payroll from the very beginning. The Declaration of Independence mentions God four times. The Bible was used as a textbook in the schools. The first legal mention of "separation of church and state" was in 1947 by the Supreme Court.
Carol Bragg
3:48 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Before you conclude that religion and government do not mix, consider this: The nonviolent movement for civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s that ended most segregation, challenged employment and housing discrimination based on race, and guaranteed voting rights regardless of race or ethnic origin came out of the Black churches of the South. Black clergy, Jewish rabbis, and white Catholic priests and Protestant ministers joined forces to bring about a great social transformation based on Jesus' ethic of love and the words of the Hebrew prophets. The alternative to this religion-based movement was riots, armed uprising or even civil war. This application of religious precepts to government policy and action at local, state and federal levels prevented untold carnage and loss of property. And it was based in the utopian yet practical notion that one can love one's enemies and return good for evil while battling social injustice. We can be thankful that not everyone believed that religion and government don't mix.
Todd Ouellet
2:04 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Carol, Dave is correct. And i am not trying to be the moderator. But I really dont recall any substantial town issues being fought over by any religious group and I have been here for 18 years. But you spent several paragraphs educating us ignorant tax payers on different religious beliefs. Sorry but that was off topic. And again with your Utopia. It only exist in your blueberry patch. I wonder if they will allow you to put up your signs this year against the town regulations or if you will have to obide by the ordinance like the other business owners in Seekonk!
Carol Bragg
3:56 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
And why exactly am I off topic? The title of the article is Controversial Town Meeting Date Changed. The subtitle is: The meeting had been scheduled to take place on the first night of the Jewish holiday Passover. A discussion of Passover is not off topic. Other subjects you raise are.
Dave Abbott
3:28 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Ms. Bragg you just explained my statement better than I ever could. Thank you.
Carol Bragg
6:38 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Your "thank you" is gratefully accepted and very much appreciated. Most of us are desperately trying to create a kinder, gentler society for everyone's children and for future generations. We may not agree about how to go about doing this, but we do share this common motive.
deb of see-attleboro
4:36 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
I think the topic has evolved into something much more fundamental to good government. Trust.
i am truly appalled at what I witnessed at yesterday mornings BOS meeting.
Isn't there anyone else who wants to get to the bottom of why official notice of the Special Town Meeting was published before the vote was taken? Who authorized this? Who made the request to the Sun Chronicle? When was the request made?
William Rice
5:04 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Does the press have to reveal it's sources? No. During all the head-hanging and lock-jaw it didn't appear to be an employee. That leaves one or more selectmen. If it was three, they violated the open meeting law. If it was one, only robert's rules, protocol, town bylaws and ethics were smeared. Could have been any one of three, but, I know where I would put my money. If it didn't break a law, katie-bar-the-door.
deb of see-attleboro
5:25 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Bill: This has nothing to do with revealing sources. This is a public notice which I am pretty sure the taxpayers paid for. There is a paper trail.
Carol Bragg
5:51 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Deb: Publishing a notice does not necessarily equate with running a paid advertisement. The by-law requires "publishing a notice" but doesn't spell out how that is to be done.
Todd Ouellet
3:01 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Deb, You are not going to ever get to the bottom of it. Just add it to a long list of never answered questions in the minutes of Seekonk Legislature. Sad but true. Eventually there will be another issue to address and this one will fade away. Maybe this was intentional to keep the attendance minimal. I suspect we will find that some type of contract has already been engaged for this school safety review. This happens a lot in Seekonk. Then when you ask why it happened the answer is, "Well nobody showed up to the meeting!", Hmmmm!!! Connect the dots!
Jack Smith
3:46 pm on Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Regardless of who is who on that board, I'm glad to see that the non majority on that board is not into back room politics, this showed that 100% and for Cavaco to use the school safety as a concern to push it through was sad. The 3 that voted for this meeting to continue knowing that it was published in the paper before the meeting took place should be embarrassed. I will vote for Brady. Buckley and Cavaco are part of that train wreck with Sagar and Mcclintock.